Tank like a girl
Oct 13 2009

TPS revisited

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Here we are, in 3.2.2, the next big content patch is on the horizon, and I have wanted to talk about the changes that 3.2 brought to prot warriors for ages. I just never got around to writing it.

What’s changed? Devastate has, that’s what. Previously basically the support ability that let you stack 5 Sunders with a threat bonus, Devastate is now almost back to the role it had in TBC. It’s made a huge comeback in our rotations when its weapon damage was increased to 60% plus an additional bonus damage of 20% per stack of Sunder Armor. This makes Devastate one of the top 3 damage abilities of a protection warrior, and is usually only surpassed by Heroic Strike and Shield Slam for me.

Wartotem over in the ever knowledgeable realms of Tankspot has created a DPS/TPS spreadsheet that does the number crunching for us.

The results:

Devastate now tops Revenge easily when it comes to both threat and DPS. It’s even better when you have the 2pc T8 or 2pc T9 bonus. Or both. It’s also stronger than Concussion Blow and Shockwave, but those 2 produce more damage than Devastate.

What does this mean for our rotation?

Priority has shifted to:

> > >

On bosses, Shockwave and CB will continue to provide greater DPS despite not stunning the boss. Revenge has fallen to the bottom of the priority list, but is still the ability with the best rage to threat ratio and does more damage than Dev. This makes it very valuable in low rage situations, e.g. when running heroics. In unlimited rage scenarios filling any Shield Slam cooldown time with Devastate will be more successful as far as threat is concerned.

This also means that I would not recommend the Glyph of Revenge anymore, as Glyph of Devastate is a lot better. The faster you get your Sunder stack to 5, the more threat you can frontload. This is especially important in such threat-sensitive fights as Malygos, Hodir and Twin Val’kyr where your DPS will receive big damage buffs.

I highly recommend everyone who’s remotely interested in numbers to plug their stats and talents into the spreadsheet and then have it all laid out there. Good stuff.

13 Responses to “TPS revisited”

  1. Christman says:

    Wow, we have come a long way in the past year in regards to warrior tanking rotation/priority. Switching from the classic SS>Rev>Dev>Dev rotation to the priority system with the SnB procs took some time to get adjusted to. This change in the priority should be easy to pick up now.

    Reply

  2. Veneretio says:

    I’m still skeptical based on what I’ve read in the thread. It seems like later posts continue to question his Devastate math. Definitely something worth carefully following.
    .-= Veneretio´s last blog ..The Road to Content: Reputation vs Gear vs Experience =-.

    Reply

  3. Ablimoth says:

    I think I agree with Veneretio. It doesn’t concur with the (admittedly primitive) math that I did at the launch of 3.2. I’ll attempt to replicate that below.

    Devastate damage:
    0.95 * {([weapon dps] + [ap]/14)*[weapon speed] + 202 * 5}

    Revenge damage
    0.95 * {[ap]*0.207 + [(1454+1776)/2]}

    For me, with Last Laugh and 5k buffed ap, I get the following damage per hit:

    Devastate: ~1765
    Revenge: ~2690

    The glyph of Devastate (IIRC) doubles the added threat from the ap component, bringing it to 10% ap as threat (+1000 threat for me) leaving it ever so slightly behind Revenge (due to Revenge’s innate threat).

    Concussion Blow & Shockwave both deal ~3565 (ap*0.75*0.95) damage, so Devastate and Revenge are well behind both.

    I’m ignoring some bonuses which are consistent across both (Improved Defensive Stance, Ret +3% damage) and haven’t accounted for +25% crit on Devastate (with 2pT8 & talents) or +5% damage for Devastate (with 2pT9) but equally I haven’t accounted for 20% Revenge damage (what can I say, I’m lazy and I did when 3.2 dropped and they were close, but Revenge pulled ahead).

    I think he’s not quite right with his math.

    Reply

  4. Ablimoth says:

    Actually, since I’m going to get chewed out by it:

    Increased Devastate crit %:

    0.25 * [Average Devastate damage * 1.05 (2pT9)] * 2.2 + 0.48 * [average weapon damage]

    1864 additional average damage (more than Revenge) per hit

    Devastate damage (relative to Revenge) is then (1765*1.05)+1864 = 3717

    Revenge average damage is [average revenge damage * 1.2] = 3228

    Well… isn’t that a shock… I mean, I knew Warriors loved to crit, I just can’t believe that 25% crit (and 5% damage) is greater than 20% damage…

    I must have done something wrong, brb.

    Reply

  5. Ablimoth says:

    Wait, I know now. I double dipped the crit damage. It should have been:

    0.25 * [Average Devastate damage * 1.05 (2pT9)] * 1.2 + 0.48 * [average weapon damage]

    Note the 1.2 not as I’ve already accounted for the first 1x damage for the original hit.

    Starting from the beginning: Devastate compared with Revenge

    (1.05 * (0.95 * {([weapon dps] + [ap]/14)*[weapon speed] + 202 * 5 + 0.25 * (1.2 * ([weapon dps] + [ap]/14)*[weapon speed] + 202 * 5}) + 0.48 * ([weapon dps] + [ap]/14)*[weapon speed])))

    (Interpretation: (2pT9 * (Defensive Stance * {([Devastate Damage +( 2pT8&talents * impale * Devastate Damage + Deep Wounds))))

    Average hit is then: 3086
    While Revenge remains at 3228

    So Devastate will do more threat than Revenge, but not more damage.

    Damn... ya'all just got treated to a lovely, long, boring run through of the way I think at the end of a work day... (and all for rough, dirty and imperfect math!).

    Assumptions: 0% crit (buffed), Last Laugh, 5k ap (again, buffed), talented Revenge and Devastate (crit).

    As your weapon improves (i.e. if you manage to get http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47513) you will do more damage with each Devastate but even with this, Revenge does more damage. Revenge also scales differently to Devastate with gear (20.7% of ap rather than (14% * [weapon speed]).

    Bah, I’m done: For me, Revenge > Devastate for damage done, Devastate > Revenge for threat.

    Reply

    Kadomi Reply:

    Thanks for the math! That means that struggling tanks that need a threat lead can pretty much spam Devastate to get a headstart, but if you are looking to maximize damage (for example on fights that are farm content or DPS races) Revenge, CB and Shockwave should still be used quite a bit.

    Reply

    Ablimoth Reply:

    Only with the glyph of Devastate (but really, it’s so good what else would you want!).

    Reply

  6. Baruti says:

    If I take a loook at the Priority Kadomi posts in this post (SS->Dev->SW->CB->Rev), why bother with SW, CB and Rev at all is a 1-on-1 encounter?
    I mean, doesn’t that mean you should always use SS first, then if that is on CD, use Dev, then… But Dev is never on CD…
    So basiclly just spam Dev and use SS when it is available..
    Would make the ‘rotation’ rather easy…

    please explain if I got it wrong, I’ve been out of the serious tanking game ever since TBC!

    ~B.

    Reply

    Kadomi Reply:

    If you are only looking at an encounter from a threat perspective you could probably get by just using SS on cooldown, spamming Devastate and Heroic Strike in the meantime. However, to maximize your own personal DPS, Shockwave, CB and Revenge all provide more damage.

    The rotation you describe would be easy, but also boring. Prot warriors are interesting because they have this huge toolkit, and we should learn to use it all.

    Reply

    tpaste Reply:

    Waaaay late to the party here, but in my (admittedly not very scientific) observations I do much better damage cutting SW and CB out of my rotation entirely…the reason – Dev procs Sword and Board. Perhaps there is something I’m missing but I just haven’t seen better dps (single target – with more than one mob, SW is still valuable) including CB and SW.

    Reply

  7. [...] Talents | Tags: devastate, Mathcraft, patch 3.2, Threat I want to point more tanks over at Kadomi’s post from Tuesday concerning warrior ability use priority.  It is a great summation of the information gleaned from [...]

  8. Zellviren says:

    The threat that comes from the new and improved Devastate is a significant increase, but to really get the most out of it you have to pick up the Glyph of Devastate (you get the additional threat from the Sunder Armor that goes with it).

    As Kadomi mentions picking up the glyph in her post, I’m assuming she is applying her numbers with that in mind.

    Best thing to do? Pick up the Glyph of Devastate and give it a go on a boss somewhere; it shouldn’t be too hard to find one. :P

    Reply

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