Tank like a girl
Mar 27 2009

Heroics killer in the making?

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As I have posted before, 5-man content is probably my favorite content. Give me a good guild group, and heroics are the most awesome fun that you can have. Hell, even Suckulus was fun, if really frustrating. WotLK did a lot of great things with 5-mans. The length is ideal, they’re fast-paced, they’re diverse. Good job. On the other hand, I personally find it too easy to get into heroics, people diving on the first day at 80 is common, and for a casual player it takes away some of my personal sense of progression. The latter might just be me.

The reward ratio for running heroics is great. You get Emblems of Heroism, and the gear drops are clearly superior to normal instances, and sometimes on-par with 10-man raid drops. The emblem gear offers a relatively small selection of great items to gear up with, including T7 tokens for the perpetually unlucky or those who’d rather not count on RNG to get their bonuses. I personally was never concerned about the low number of things you could buy for your emblems, I reckoned the emblem vendors would receive fresh gear sometime. It’s here where I was completely wrong apparently.

In 3.1, Blizzard is introducing the Emblem of Conquest. Said emblems will drop in the new 25-mans, that is Ulduar and whoever that new Wintergrasp boss is going to be eventually. People who run Ulduar-10 will get Emblems of Valor off every boss, the currency that’s currently used in all existing 25-mans. Ulduar-10 raiders are supposed to gear up with the Valor reward gear that current 25-man raiders are already wearing. There will be no gear on either the Valor and the Heroism vendors.

What does this mean for the crowd that likes to run heroics? It means that you will sit on a large pile of emblems that you can only use to buy heirloom items for twinks, blue gems (which will likely go worthless when epic gems are released), or frozen orbs. I’m already at a point where I have spent emblems on everything that I wanted and am now only pondering offspec gear. I understand the reason, I do. It’s to fight the battle of complaints from the raiding hardcore, how casuals were able to get gear on par with T5 without ever setting foot into SSC or Tempest Keep. Badge-farming in Kara was hip back then, easy content rushed through for badges. I mean, when WotLK hit I was wearing all the Sunwell badge gear, some pretty great pieces of gear. I am not crying because I want uber-awesome epics for my heroics fun-time. I just want something more, something new for people who primarily run heroics. Fun-toys, non-combat pets, something.

The emblem change has already taken the wind out of my sails in regards to running heroics. I just got the Northrend Dungeon Hero achievement. I could try the heroic achievements for the proto-drake, but that’s about it. I won’t be the only one feeling like that. The raiders certainly won’t want to run heroics at all, why bother? For me it makes heroics pointless, until they add more 5-mans, if that’s in the books at all.

Will you continue to run heroics when 3.1 hits the live realms?

22 Responses to “Heroics killer in the making?”

  1. Bent says:

    I agree. I do mostly heroics. prob an avg of 2 a day, 5 over the weekend.

    In BC new badge loot kept coming out. Gave you something to do with badges for awhile longer, but the system was progression based. ie you could run kara a couple of times and skip right to the 200 badge epics.

    I was fine with it being that way.

    Blizz however stated they want to encourage progression. “Encourage” people to move into new content. So I also worry what will happen to my heroics.

    As it is today, only about 20% of the people I ran with even need elblem loot anymore – even for offspecs. Nearly all of us have hit 250. Yet we still run stuff for the sake of running, and to help alts or newbies. So I assume that will continue into 3.1

    It would be nice if blizz could figure out some sink for them beside frozen orbs and gems, which markets will also crash in 3.1

    Reply

  2. acedanger says:

    I doubt I’ll be running them. I’ve got everything I can use for my main and 2 off-specs (I’m a pally). I’ve had issues with this new emblem type since it was announced. I believe it will render heroics relatively pointless.

    acedanger´s last blog post..DST, daily quests and my WoW server

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  3. Veneretio says:

    Ya, I feel ya. There’s a real lack of stuff to do outside raiding. Heck even farming I miss as the list of consumable requirements grows shorter and shorter.

    I think probably the biggest mistake they made was not having keys for heroics. That was incredibly stupid. I think rep grinds are important for forcing people to learn content in the right order.

    I really think what needs to happen is they need to add a lot more heirloom items. They’ve really gotta add a reason to do 5 mans. I used to love them and do them all the time. I haven’t done them in months and it bothers me.

    That being said, I think I’m going to go and get the achievements and get a proto-drake. I hate Occulus as much as you, but I feel like it’s time to head back there and figure it out. Magisters Terrace became one of my favourites once I got the rhythm of it. I really just miss the experience of chatting on a 5 man most of all though. Where’d that go? That use to be half the reason I played.

    You’ve given me a lot to think about. Thank you.

    Veneretio´s last blog post..Attacking on the Run: Strafing

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  4. Pike says:

    I think Blizz recently said they would be adding new badge loot for the heroics badges in the near future. I’m not sure exactly *what* they will be adding though…

    Pike´s last blog post..Meme Me

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  5. Naissa says:

    I’d very much like to keep running them, but nobody else that I know really wants to run them except for alts. So I’ll still run them when I can, but I doubt it will be often.

    Overall I agree with your assessments and I think I posted my thoughts on it awhile back…Or was going to. Hard to tell when you have a goldfish brain like me. =P

    It’s sad really because I much prefer the 5-person content to the raid content, but I do agree that they made the 5 person content much better with this expansion aside from the fact that it’s going to be obsolete and abandoned much faster with the way things seem at the moment. :(

    Naissa´s last blog post..The Quest Grind: How I hate thee.

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  6. Norm says:

    I’m pretty completely burned out on healing heroics on my druid. I’ll go if my friends need a healer, and I’ll go if people want to try the achievements, but I definitely don’t need any gear, and I’m worn out of the content. Yup, look, snakes. Yup, vile sorcerery. Yup, I must defend the Kirin Tor. Yup, Arthas is a noob. Adding in fancier badge loot wouldn’t change the fact that I’m burnt out. I heard they were nerfing the ilvl of the heroic epic drops to make a bigger difference between Naxx10 loot and heroic loot, which worries me, but my source is gossip.

    I ADORE the idea of adding in badge purchasable pets/mounts/toys though. How fun.

    I’m kind of looking forward to learning how to play my next alt at 80 in Heroics when I get her there, though. I know I could get dragged straight into Naxx if I wanted but I’d rather legitimately earn it.

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  7. Karthis says:

    I’m surprised they’re not adding new loot to the heroic vendors….. they could have done that WITHOUT making the loot so obscenely powerful that raiding epics would feel hollow.

    Personally I haven’t done a heroic in months since I can’t use any of the gear…. I actually have way too many valor emblems, and considered exchanging some for heroic emblems just to gear my alt.

    Karthis´s last blog post..How much defense does a Druid need?

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  8. Anglachel says:

    I already barely run them and only when i spec Arms to get my dps set ready for the patch.

    Combined with the ease of entry level raids, the lack of heroic emblem loot is going to end up killing heroics… it’s already pretty hard to get a group for anything other than the daily, and it will only get harder with time…

    Anglachel´s last blog post..PTR! woot!

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  9. Vads says:

    “Will you continue to run heroics when 3.1 hits the live realms?”

    I might, but I’d have to be pretty bored for it. It will be on the same level as when I go fooling around in ZG or Karazhan.

    As others mentioned I’m very disappointed with how emblems of valor/heroism are handled, another type will only make it worse.

    Vads´s last blog post..Things I wish Blizzard would have considered before shipping WotLK

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  10. Spinks says:

    I am pretty bored of heroics by this point, so I’m not sad if I only end up running a few to help people’s alts.

    I think they’ll be pretty dead. But isn’t that better than us having to keep running them again and again and again etc?

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    admin Reply:

    Sure, but what is going to fill the gap for people? What are people doing in game at this point when it’s not raiding or farming for raiding? Is the Argent Tournament supposed to fill the gap?

    I for sure know that TBC heroics didn’t get boring that quickly and that I ran them all the way to the end of TBC.

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  11. Spinks says:

    “What are people doing in game at this point when it’s not raiding or farming for raiding? Is the Argent Tournament supposed to fill the gap?”

    That is a very good question, and I’d love to know the answer too. Never mind heroics, I’m not even sure people will be running Naxx very much in the next patch because a lot of people are bored of that too.

    I did get quite bored of heroics at the end of TBC (getting 3 alts to exalted rep can really put you off a place *coff*shadow lab*coff*), but definitely agree it took longer to get boring than Wrath instances did.

    Not sure if it was just because they were longer and so took longer to learn/ run or if there was a bigger difference?

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  12. ARA says:

    Well I think you’re absolutely right in your analysis for the most part. However, the reason there’s no new badge rewards is not to appease the hardcore; its to encourage players to try the new content. That’s an important distinction. You see otherwise, Blizzard makes decisions favouring one sector of their players – always a bad idea. A recent discussion by GC was all about how players would do anything for epics. Whether its super easy farm runs of kara, or blindingly boring rep runs (eg another Silithus!); whether its arena in TBC, or raiding in wrath, people are motivated by loot. If you allow upgraded items for lowgraded emblems, then that is what people will do. I too missed most of t5 – why? Because I could get equivalent gear from kara + heroics, and go straight to t6. For Blizzard this is bad – it means many players, like myself, hardly step foot in t5. What a waste of a couple of beautiful instances… from Blizzards point of view. And also from mine. For many players, they didnt care because they got high end loot.

    So this new system is designed to encourage people to raid Ulduar, and I love it. I think its a big improvment. If you had spent this much time and money on creating their most beautiful instance to date, you would want your players to go in there. I would see the TBC heroic system was a great experiment, with a few serious flaws. People LOVED heroics, but the rewards were too good.

    One other thing: you say you love heroics and they’re your favourite activity in the game. I totally undetand that, I love them too… but I’ve long since abandoned them on my main. Blizzard can only produce new content so fast, including new 5 man content. So yes, we will get bored of them, and that’s what our alts are for. Again, its a subtle point, but the reason many people were not bored of heroics in TBC was because of the high end loot available for 150 badges. Its about people’s motives to play, more than anything else, and that is why they’ve instigated tiered badges. If blizzard made an Ulduar25 item available for 300 emblems of heroism, many of us would grind badges, and a large part of the motive to set foot in Ulduar would be gone.

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  13. Daslasher says:

    I think this is a spot on post. I also enjoy 5 man heroics and they continued to be enjoyable in TBC for much longer than they have in Wotlk.

    It is fine encouraging people to progress and try new content but 10 and 25 man raids are limited. They can only be done once a week, tend to be very organised etc.

    5 man heroics provide the filler that can be done on the spur of the moment, over and over with different people, in guild or not.

    I often log in now and stand wondering what the hell to do. Im fully geared in main and off spec from emblem of heroism and have 120 or so sat in my pocket so whats the point of running more 5 mans?

    Most people I know are now only running heroics on their alts. Blizz needs to come up with a win-win where progression and new content exploration is encouraged but the bread and butter 5-man content isnt compromised.

    Many people are affected by this. i dont think its an either or situation that the previous poster decribes. I dont either raid or run heroics. I do both, or Id like to.

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  14. Marymoon says:

    Since I got everything I wanted from 25 man Naxx ,Maly,3D sarth, I´m just sitting waiting for Ulduar. In the meanwhile, I lvld my shadow priest to 80 and I´m currently farming gear for her, just for fun.

    So heroics on my main is pretty much discarded for good.

    Reply

  15. $teele says:

    wtf emblems of valor for ulduar-10-man, that sux big time. im already geared in 25-man-stuff and im not going to find a 25-man-raid for ulduar. so might aswell quit, im not in for wiping and learning new bosses when theres not even a gearupgrade waiting… argh! as for heroics, i run daily heroic every day except if its oculus.. i need the cash and the emblems (emblems for more cash -> buy red gems). i wouldnt run them if not for the cash, they bore the crap out of me.

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  16. Tarsus says:

    Pesronally, I have an army of alts to level up so I’m not too worried about running out of emblems. My death Knight is almost to 80, then it’s time to work on my druid.

    That said, I have been enjoying having a bit more of a life given that I don’t need to farm heroics/Kara to get the gear I need for raiding. Oh, who am I kidding? I’m just going to play Left4Dead and AD&D. There is no escaping my pale geeky fate.

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  17. Peter says:

    Agree with one poster: there could be a way to keep 5 mans interesting beyond pure gear motivations, which I understand. Perhaps non-combat related bonuses like pets & mounts is the way to go. But I dont expect to keep getting gear upgrades from 5 mans. At a certain point, its over. You may as well say “I love questing so much, so I want to keep doing it and get better and better upgrades”. NEVER going to happen :P

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  18. Alaphrei says:

    It would be nice if harder heroics are added (heroics that assume a higher level of gear) and give new types of badges. Like Magisters’ Terrace was difficult for people compared to say, Mechanar.

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  19. Hinenuitepo says:

    I’ll run them on alts mostly. My main already only runs them when a guildy is gearing an alt and we need at least one strong dps. But I still enjoy them on alts (even my well-geared Naxx 10 kitted resto shammy). I think they’ll still be a progression path for alts indefinitely. It’s Naxx that will get the shaft. Once your alt is heroic and badge-geared, it’ll be common to jump into Ulduar for powergearing your alts.

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  20. Umbaajo says:

    I think the reason why so many players have now reached a point where they are either fed up with 5-man content or have accumulated more than enough emblems of heroism is that the heroics are too easy. Once you hit 80, you skip doing normal dungeons and go straight to the first heroic. In TBC, you were required to run normal dungeons a couple of times to acquire some decent gear that enabled you to survive the easier heroics. What’s more, you also needed rep and keys to enter heroics (as Vene already pointed out).

    Granted, it’s always a balancing problem Blizzard is facing, but in WotLK they didn’t create enough incentives to do normal dungeons prior to heroics. This way, people end up bored sooner than before. What I miss at this point are quest lines that keep you going for a while. Take Blackrock Depths for example (okay, it was pre-heroic, but still), where several interesting quest lines kept you hooked and returning to that place for quite a while.

    So I think it’s a mixture between interesting stories, challenging game content and better gear that makes you return to a place over and over again. If Blizzard is now introducing a new emblem without adding new gear for old emblems, heroics will loose a great deal of their appeal to many well-geared players (alts not included).

    I do hope Blizzard will work on that as I truly enjoy doing heroics.

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  21. Of course I will. I do heroics not so much because of the rewards – I need absolutely nothing from Emblems of Heroism, and there’s no Heroic gear that’s even a sidegrade for me – I do it because there are guildmates who still do need them, and they’re good practice to keep my abilities sharp between raids. Plus, as you said, they’re short enough that, even though I can’t raid Wed-Sat, I can still get in a heroic or maybe two after I get home from work.

    So yes, I’ll continue to run them so long as someone I know and care about continues to need them. I don’t ever see that changing.

    Rilgon Arcsinh´s last blog post..Guild Brains and Radio Waves

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