Mission: PUG about to proceed
I had a fabulous WoW weekend. Really tons of fun. As usual I did not have luck with the Hyldnir spoils, and my Mysterious Egg got me nothing but Aged Yolk, but there’s always the next spoil bag or the next egg. Kadomi is oodles of fun to play, and I enjoy pushing the DPS in my group to bring it. At least in guild groups I usually end up 2nd if not 1st, with my Deep Wounds build. Eternally Folded Blade is a myth. If my luck’s like that when I start doing the H UP runs, then woe is me.
But back to my weekend. I ran my very first couple of heroics. As healer, that is. In fact I managed to get 29 Emblems of Heroism this weekend, and my shaman bought her first piece of new badge gear. I had a blast! Healing is fun. Being the tank-healer team with someone right across from you is great. But it does not solve the dilemma that I have an epic-geared alt and a neglected main. This must change.
This place will continue to be ‘Tank like a girl’ because you can read everywhere else how to heal. My passion is for tanking, for being a meat shield, and for being pretty darn good at it. I will follow the current trend and will learn to love the PUG, just like Drug from Shields Up! and Namthe from The View from Down Here recommend to people. A ret paladin friend has declared she’ll help me and will come along, and soon the pages of this blog will be filled with entertaining tales of PUG adventures. At least that’s the theory. 
In truth, I can absolutely see the merits of PUGs. Back in TBC when I first started tanking, I ran PUGs extensively. Almost all experiences were positive, and you sure learn a lot. I know a lot more since then. It’s not as if I don’t get a lot of whispers to tank this and that heroic. Instead of categorically saying no, I will embrace them, if I cannot get a guild group. I am done with all the basic rep grinds for gear and stuff like enchants, as I’ll be Exalted with Sons of Hodir later today. It’s time to try all the easy heroics. Hell, if I can heal all the easy heroics, I sure will be able to tank them.
There, it’s posted, now I will have to do it. Hopefully I can entertain you with great stories soon.
What’s your take on it, do you PUG, do you never PUG?
You’d better keep blogging about tanking! I play a Blood Elf Prot Paladin currently, but my pre-BC main was a Human Warrior. Your Epic Dolls interview inspired me to dig her out and start leveling her in my spare time despite the faction difference just because you made me miss the class so much! I’d be really sad if you stopped blogging about tanking.
Aureilie´s last blog post..The Soloing Continues: Moroes
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admin Reply:
January 12th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
No worries, not gonna happen. Tanking is too much fun to give it up.
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I’m in the exact opposite position. While I’m only playing my resto shaman to gather herbs and 2-3 raiding nights, all my time is sucked up by my beautiful prot warrior. I’m one emblem short to t7 breastplate and finally got the UP H sword. While I’m not that much into dps I just love to switch between tanking and healing. And if one day I’ll like tanking too much, hey we still can swap blogs.
drug´s last blog post..The PuGs – I like ‘em
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admin Reply:
January 12th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
I am not into DPS myself. I am half-heartedly leveling my warlock or pretending that I am leveling, but I really take the greatest joy in utility roles like tanking and healing.
Blog swap sounds great for when we get really desperate.
Grats on your Red Sword, I will get my hands on it, one fine day.
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I tend to run instances in a PUG a lot and my experiences are mixed. The problem I have is that one person in the PUG isn’t carrying their weight and that can really hurt the group in a WotLK heroic. On my low-population realm, it’s nearly impossible to fill an open spot in the middle of a heroic, so if, for example, I’m on the second boss of Old Kingdom and our DPS isn’t pulling their weight, there’s not much the group can do but try harder or give up.
Apart from only running with people you’ve done heroics with before, how do you pick who you PUG with? I mean, you and the rest of the group arrive at the instance ready to kick some butt. How do you tell things aren’t going to end well before you kill the first boss and get locked in?
So far, this has been my solution: before we begin, in the LookingForGroup channel, I post, “DPS needed for , no greens, must be over 1200 DPS”. Then, once we start, if someone is falling behind on the DPS meter, I’ll mention that I need them to step it up a bit and, by the first boss, if they’re not at a reasonable DPS rating, I let them know that things just aren’t working with them. Sometimes they understand. Sometimes they pitch a fit. But, at the very least, I’d like to think I save the group a 50g repair bill.
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I don’t PUG. Ever. I won’t tank a 5 man if there’s more than one from out of guild. In my experience PUGs are what the fail players have to do because they can’t get into a good guild. I would say that 80% of the people I have PUGed with were bad. Sure, there are exceptions but the odds are just too low that you’ll get decent players.
I took my holy priest over to a new account and my son finished leveling him up to 80 and started healing. He was bored with his mage and wanted something to do. We have had a lot of fun running some heroics and he’s been able to help out with the 25 man raids when we were short on healers. Good fun.
I see people that just turn 80 and have crap gear do 1500 dps consistently if they know their class. If I were to set a requirement for people joining my 5 man it would be about 2000 dps. That’s not that hard to achieve if you have mainly blues and a few purples. I’m generally running 5 mans to help a guildie get geared though so many are closer to the 1500 than 2000.
Tankette´s last blog post..Naxx, Naxx and more Naxx
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Fridaymacfay Reply:
January 13th, 2009 at 3:50 am
“n my experience PUGs are what the fail players have to do because they can’t get into a good guild.”
I’m in a good guild, and I have to PuG all the time. And most of the time it’s quite nice and I meet a buncha new people. (Though I tend to blog about the bad ones… hmmmm… your last post, for example, is the type of stuff I *should* be writing about!) I’m pretty sure, with the right motivation and inclination, I could get into a solid raiding guild. But I’m absolutely sure I could never get into a better guild than the one I’m in. Small as it is.
I can say one thing for certain about PuGs. The moment some mix/maxer pops out the DPS meter, it’s 90% fail. Once one or two start watching their meters instead of playing, it’s over. I leave those immediately and as early as possible. They never, ever work out. I will not tank for gear-heads.
Outside of proper raiding, top-end DPS just doesn’t matter like it use to in TBC. Yah, you need proper gear to start heroics. Yah, you need to be at a certain minimum gear level to run any dungeon. You can’t walk into a heroic in greens, granted. But it doesn’t take much more than that to be effective.
Wrath created a much bigger margin between win and fail. There’s a lot of people screaming about this situation, but I’ll bet a big pile o’ gold that Blizz isn’t gonna change it.
-Fri
Fridaymacfay´s last blog post..Bladestorm for Dum Dums
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As for swords, I got the Folded Blade on my first HoL run without even know it was a possible drop. I also got the Infantry Assult Blade from somewhere so that’s my main tanking weapon.
The Red Sword of Courage is another story. Apparently you need to be a Pally tank for it to drop because 3 pally tanks got the sword. Each on their first time. I’ve cleared the place 7 or 8 times and got nothing. I’ve kill Noth in 10 man Naxx 4 times and he won’t give me a sword either.
We might be hitting Gluth tonight on heroic Naxx and i think he drops a really good tanking sword, forget the name atm, so maybe i’ll finally get lucky.
Tankette´s last blog post..Naxx, Naxx and more Naxx
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I don’t PUG, but its mostly because whenever my wife and I log on (Tank + Healer combo FTW indeed), there is always at least three guild DPS itching to go kill something.
Yakra´s last blog post..Why Ten Mans Popularity Will Decline
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admin Reply:
January 12th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Yeah, that’s one of the reasons that I get so much shaman time. Nothing beats the tank-healer combo, we always get groups together. Just doesn’t work that way when I want to play Kadomi.
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Ah I still love to pug sometimes. Its nice to meet new people and I get bored running 5mans with the people I know and love from our raids. Mind you, I dont run 5 mans on my main anymore, but as I level my alt tank, I’ll pug 5 mans with him. Like you, I also learned to tank in PUGs, long before I joined a real guild. I had a blast. You gradually collect a list of friends you regularly go with, and as long as your healer is solid, it tends to work out well.
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I run a lot of pugs and it usually works out. one in 20 times the damage is not enough and we have to abort, but mostly its a clear without wipe. I make sure though, that i have the required classes for the encouter (for example shamen or hunter for Loken). just a while ago i had a pug with all the random DDs riding 2.3k dps and more.. why wouldnt you want to pug with them, i cant even clear heroics like that with the best people of my guild
afterall, tanking heroic pugs in the first 2 weeks of wotlk when my guild was still lvling has put me way ahead of most the tanks and all the players of my guild.. so now when they arrive at 80 ill take them directly into heroics, even if they are still sitting below 1k dps.
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I’ve always run a lot of pugs, and probably always will. I’ve learned a heck of a lot more about my classes from them than I have in smooth guild-groups. You get good and bad ones, you just have to know when to leave the latter. They’re also generally more challenging, especially when I’m healing. Lately though I’ve been running with my guild, and I have to go enhance except for raiding unless I want to pug all the time (hurray for your pet tank wanting to gear up a super-undergeared healer friend). It’s getting kind of boring in a way, and I miss healing pugs, heh.
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admin Reply:
January 13th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
I don’t know about healing pugs. Tried that once, in TBC, and it was horrible, as you always get blamed when things go badly. At least as tank I know my shit.
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Vetiverr Reply:
January 15th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Hah, well I am one of those mean healers that pays attention and will call people out. I’m sure I’ve left a bad taste in some people’s mouths, but they can’t say I don’t know what I’m doing.
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I try to only pug a heroic that I have done at least a couple of times with guildies to work out the kinks. My wife is a resto druid, so my healer sits right beside me so even picking up 3 pug dps isn’t a problem. Although my wife did take an ambien the other night before we started HVH and at 17/18 portals she decided she needed mana and started drinking and didn’t heal me. The next morning she didn’t even remember wiping. =)
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@Tankette
Actually the sword is called Slayer of the Lifeless dropped by Gothik the Harvester ; Gluth can drop it too, as his loot is every other loot except for those Sapphiron and Kel’Thuzad drops.
I got that sword first time I ran Naxx and trust me, it was a major upgrade from Hammer of Quiet Mourning.
You can check loot tables at http://www.wow-loot.com which is an excellent site to see whereas your upgrades are.
Nevertoolate, Destiny Awaits, Eredar.
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Oh, and I do pugs with my good friend, having a personnal healer is in my honest opinion the best that can be.
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Glad to hear you’re back into the tanking PuG game – though it’s been my experience that healers are in far higher demand these days.
Regarding the sword you’ve been farming – it is probably worth hitting UK to farm for the “Infantry Assault Blade” off of Prince Kaleseth and the Red Sword of Courage from UP while you’re in the neigborhood. If you’re already doing HoL without much issue you should be able to do UP in short order as long as your group can handle the mechanics of the gauntlet run on the third boss.
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If I’m tanking, I will almost never ever PUG. I even get shirty if a guild run has one or two random outsiders. I am less intimidated by PUGs if I’m on one of my DPS characters.
I’m kind of in the same boat – my tank is getting neglected, and I hate that. I think part of the reason is due to the large numbers of new tanks, and returning tanks. It’s a lot easier for me to just let the GM or senior officers play their tanks than to try to debate the merits of who should be tanking. Yeh, it sucks.
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I personally am not a fan of pugs as a tank or as a healer. I have had a few good pugs back in BC days, but in Wrath, the couple I have done have been horrible due to dps just being bad.
Healing wise, I am usually ok if the tank is geared well, but I see a lot of tanks that are undergeared for heroics, which would be ok (since I am overgeared for them as a healer), but then the dps doesn’t pull their weight. When I see a dps doing less than 1500 output, I tend to say something or leave. I can put out 1100-1200 as a Resto Shaman, so they should easily be able to put out 1500, and more close to 2000.
I got lucky I guess with Wrath and got in a guild group, and we ran 3-4 heroics a day before raids. It made for easy farming of the Championed reps and Emblems.
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I too almost never PUG … I sometimes regret it thinking its a shame. Cuz as other mentioned. In the very beginning of the game I pug’ed all the time and I met so many great and good people. Some of them I have been called my friends for almost 4 years.
But for me the quality of a pug is just to unreliable. I dont mind wiping but there has to be sanity in it. Wiping because people do not know how to play their toon just makes me mad and my poor keyboard takes some blows.
Furthermore I now have a limited playtime so I cant spend all this time waiting for a group and finding new replacements. If you go with guild or friends you are pretty sure they stay to the end.
I watched my boyfriend. Who is playing healer (yes we got that healer tank thing going on
) pug heroic Halls of Lightning the other day. It was just too painfull to watch and reminded of why I only pug occasionally. 9 wipes most of them made from bad tank pulls. 3 replacements and in the end they got respawns so they didnt downed last boss as the group then totally fell apart….. Need I say more ? :S
Another reason for not pugging is that I like to be the leader. Tanking works best for me when I set targets tell tacs etc. I guess I am a real control freak;) To be accepted as leader is just easiest when going with friends or guildies
/Áethel
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Uh, frequent reader, first time commenter? Yeah, that’s me.
I’ve recently dusted off my warrior tank who was my first WoW character and have been outfitting him for heroics and trying a few here and there. Healer friend and I did several in succession the other day and I decided to brave H UP. I guess he must have saved up a lot of luck from not tanking much for 2+ years because the RSoC dropped for me. Woohoo!
I’m having a lot of fun tanking again, though the pressure can get tough sometimes.
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admin Reply:
January 15th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Hopefully not the last time you comment!
Grats on your drop luck, I am most jealous. I am shooting for the UK sword first, but so far no luck. In fact, I seem to be cursed tanking heroics so far, but hopefully I will get the tanking mojo again.
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Personally, I love PUG tanking on my belf paladin. I’ve met a bunch of good heals and dps that way, and some heals and dps I wouldn’t ask again. But whatever.
IMO, PUGing on a tank is one of the best roles to do it on. You basically mark, lead, etc the 5 man. So if you know what you’re doing the success rate of 5 random people together goes up a ton.
On my tank starting out, I did PUG runs about 75% of the time. I started tanking them in blues/few greens when I hit 80 and was in more then half epics a week and a half later.
As for no one in group knowing what to do on a boss. I have sat there and read up on a boss before doing it. This is especially helpful when someone in your group describes the “wipe fest” they had earlier in the week on the boss. And when you haven’t ran the instance in regular. lol
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